Digital Cargo Cult: How Zoomers Ruined Old Internet Nostalgi

[UNKNOWN]

The fundamental issue isn't that you like how "Frutiger" Aero *looks*. Aesthetics are subjective. The problem is the disconnect between what you *claim* to want ("old internet") and what you actually *practice*.

You've built a "retro forum" on Proboards AKA a corporate conglomerate akin to Reddit that could delete everything tomorrow. You all organize on and use Discord - literal spyware. You run Windows 11 and call it "debloated" while actual alternatives exist. This isn't trolling, either. I am pointing out that you're LARPing as internet historians while using the exact infrastructure and language that killed what you're mourning.

The "old internet" was never about aesthetics. It was about *control*. You ran your own server. You chose your own software. You weren't dependent on platform ToS or algorithm changes. When someone says "I'm addicted to Discord" - that's not a technical problem, that's a *designed outcome*. Corporate platforms are engineered to be habit-forming.

Some of you are beginning to get this. I've seen the IRC thread, and I've seen people questioning Discord. But as long as this community optimizes for *looking retro* instead of *being independent*, you're just doing sexy vintage cosplay for the same corporations you claim to critique.

IRC, XMPP, self-hosted forums, and RSS feeds all still work and Cyberix exists as proof. It's possible, but your willingness to actually break free depends on whether you actually want it or whether you just want the aesthetic comfort of "nostalgiacore" while staying plugged into the platforms that give you infinite dopamine hits.

Your move.

[rnottelovesowls]

all due respect, you’re making a lot of assumptions about us. how do you know that we use windows 11? or are addicted to the social medias? i, for one, hate both and refuse to use them. there’s no need to be so judgmental

[Daniele63]

The fundamental issue isn't that you like how "Frutiger" Aero *looks*. Aesthetics are subjective. The problem is the disconnect between what you *claim* to want ("old internet") and what you actually *practice*.

The "old internet" was never about aesthetics. It was about *control*. You ran your own server. You chose your own software. You weren't dependent on platform ToS or algorithm changes. When someone says "I'm addicted to Discord" - that's not a technical problem, that's a *designed outcome*. Corporate platforms are engineered to be habit-forming.

IRC, XMPP, self-hosted forums, and RSS feeds all still work and Cyberix exists as proof. It's possible, but your willingness to actually break free depends on whether you actually want it or whether you just want the aesthetic comfort of "nostalgiacore" while staying plugged into the platforms that give you infinite dopamine hits.

"You've built a "retro forum" on Proboards AKA a corporate conglomerate akin to Reddit that could delete everything tomorrow."

I don't have the technical skills to create my own forum yet, I know nothing of back-end programming, so that was not an option for me. I will admit that Proboards kinda sucks but it does the job for what I need it to do at the moment. When I have the skills to make my own, I will, but for now, this'll do.

"You all organize on and use Discord - literal spyware."

Nice assumption, but no, we don't "organize on discord", 99% of people here I have never talked to on Discord. Besides, it's none of your business what people are using, it's not your problem.

"You run Windows 11 and call it "debloated" while actual alternatives exist."

Linux is great for servers but it's not a perfect alternative to Windows. There is many software that requires Windows and that don't have good open-source alternatives. Maybe good enough for you, but don't assume everyone has the same needs as you.

"This isn't trolling, either. I am pointing out that you're LARPing as internet historians while using the exact infrastructure and language that killed what you're mourning."

We're not larping as anything, this is a forum where we discuss old aesthetics and nostalgia, it's not as deep as you make it out to be.

"The "old internet" was never about aesthetics. It was about *control*. You ran your own server. You chose your own software. You weren't dependent on platform ToS or algorithm changes."

You seem to have this weird concept that everyone self-hosted their forums and websites in the old internet. That's just not true, go look at the millions of GeoCities websites that people made back in the day, these were not "self hosted" as you say, yet they're an integral part of the old web history. Frutiger Aero is more a late 2000s thing, it's Web 2.0, when the web already was more centralized but not quite as bad as today.

Plus, Frutiger Aero is not only about the old web, it also encompasses other things such as UI design, operating systems, video games, and more.

IRC, XMPP, self-hosted forums, and RSS feeds all still work and Cyberix exists as proof.

Sure they do, I haven't denied that? This is such a strawman argument it's unbelievable.

[tmg86]

You just proved my point better than I could have.

"I don't have the technical skills to make my own forum" - The old internet was built by people who *learned*. You've chosen aesthetic appreciation over capability building.

"GeoCities wasn't self-hosted" - And GeoCities is *dead*. Yahoo killed it. That's exactly why platform dependency is the problem. Those millions of sites you mentioned? *Gone*. That's what happens when you don't control your infrastructure.

"It's Web 2.0, when things were already centralized" - So you're nostalgic for the *beginning* of the problem, not the solution. You're mourning the early stages of the disease.

"Linux isn't perfect for my needs" - Translation: "I've become dependent on proprietary software and structured my digital life around corporate platforms, so independence is now inconvenient."

"It's not that deep, we just discuss nostalgia" - At least you're honest now. You want to *talk about* the old internet, not *build* it.

That's fine. But don't call it revival. Call it what it is: a book club for the aesthetics of your own disempowerment.

For anyone here actually interested in building rather than discussing, Cyberix has IRC, XMPP, working forums, and people willing to teach. The difference is we're *doing it* instead of performing nostalgia on corporate platforms.

The rest of you can keep your Proboards museum. Just be honest about what it is.

[tmg86]

The fundamental issue isn't that you like how "Frutiger" Aero *looks*. Aesthetics are subjective. The problem is the disconnect between what you *claim* to want ("old internet") and what you actually *practice*.

The "old internet" was never about aesthetics. It was about *control*. You ran your own server. You chose your own software. You weren't dependent on platform ToS or algorithm changes. When someone says "I'm addicted to Discord" - that's not a technical problem, that's a *designed outcome*. Corporate platforms are engineered to be habit-forming.

IRC, XMPP, self-hosted forums, and RSS feeds all still work and Cyberix exists as proof. It's possible, but your willingness to actually break free depends on whether you actually want it or whether you just want the aesthetic comfort of "nostalgiacore" while staying plugged into the platforms that give you infinite dopamine hits.

The community here is much different than people attention-farming on reddit and and other popular social media sites.

It may not be a holy phpBB instance running in someones basement, but considering the astonishing dumpsterfire that is Agora Road, wouldn't you say that *this* is a step in the right direction?

I do admire how cyberix is hosted, and who knows, maybe someday Daniele might move the forum off of Proboards.

And also, do realize this isn't as deep as you make it out to be. Nobody here is a "Nomad of the Interwebz"

[MetalJack98]

Geez you don't let up don't you? There's tons of revival services for old internet stuff too. So what if it's not on our forum nor the main site? We might put it up later or something. I also don't think you looked into some of the other posts here either. And when you said that part about non-Linux users becoming reliant on proprietary software, yeah maybe they are, but you're completely overlooking the fact there's proprietary software on Linux too. Matter fact lemme whip out the good old conundrum that was Red Hat Linux pay-walling all their stuff. What, you don't believe me? Look for yourself. Want a some what simpler explanation? Here you go. And if you were really "rebuilding" the old net like you say then stop wasting time shunning us and show us YOUR contributions to such revivals. I also find it funny you yourself posted stuff from these services from the corporations you hate, rather than showing some stuff that's been brought back, or actual footage of old internet.

[lakes]

Some of you are beginning to get this. I've seen the IRC thread, and I've seen people questioning Discord. But as long as this community optimizes for *looking retro* instead of *being independent*, you're just doing sexy vintage cosplay for the same corporations you claim to critique.

Again I get what you're saying. But it's condescending at best. Anyone will tell you it's best to ease into more privacy-conscious practices so you won't overwhelm yourself. I used I2P, Tor, and other privacy-respecting software before I even got nostalgic for this aesthetic. I also try to work to fight our dependence on corporations IN REAL LIFE. I won't get into it since there's a no politics rule and quite frankly I'm not sure I should be sharing too much anyway. And no I don't "organize" on Discord. People making servers on Discord for a design trend isn't "organizing." To suggest otherwise undermines actual on-the-grounds organizing. But you're assuming things about people you know nothing about. Yeah, it'd be better not to rely on "proboards", but not all the forums I use are hosted on there. Some are self-hosted like melonland.net, horrorforum.com, and the Linux Mint support forum. Hell, I've used the I2P forum before I even knew what Proboards was. I2P being a decentralized peer-to-peer network & proxy that I used before I even know what frutiger aero was.

There's a difference between constructive criticism & being presumptuous. I shouldn't have to explain my entire privacy journey in order for you to get this.

Edit: Maybe I was being too harsh on you. I just feel like you can't expect everyone to know these things & any step in the right direction is good. Yes, decentralization does help fight monopolies from forming. But unless you're exclusively using FOSS & decentralized platforms, you can't have perfect privacy (even then you can't). Yes, what you said could apply to some people in the forum. But you shouldn't assume just because they use 1 platform owned by corporation, that they aren't trying to use more privacy-respecting services. After all, most Tor users use Windows. Like I said, privacy is a gradual process for most people. I switched browsers and email providers before I even touched Linux.

[xrossmediabar]

You just proved my point better than I could have.
- The old internet was built by people who *learned*. You've chosen aesthetic appreciation over capability building.
- And GeoCities is *dead*. Yahoo killed it. That's exactly why platform dependency is the problem. Those millions of sites you mentioned? *Gone*. That's what happens when you don't control your infrastructure.
- So you're nostalgic for the *beginning* of the problem, not the solution. You're mourning the early stages of the disease.
- Translation: "I've become dependent on proprietary software and structured my digital life around corporate platforms, so independence is now inconvenient."
- At least you're honest now. You want to *talk about* the old internet, not *build* it. 
Cyberix has IRC, XMPP, working forums, and people willing to teach.
The rest of you can keep your Proboards museum. Just be honest about what it is.

"The old internet was built by people who *learned*. You've chosen aesthetic appreciation over capability building." - Since internet forums were more prominent back then, there was more support for them and it was, in my opinion easier to make one and get the help you need. You don't need a new copy of Windows Home Server to appreciate sometihing you like.

 

"And GeoCities is *dead*. Yahoo killed it. That's exactly why platform dependency is the problem. Those millions of sites you mentioned? *Gone*. That's what happens when you don't control your infrastructure.
" - What are we supposed to do about big platforms shutting down? This has been a problem since the beginning of time and consumers can't do squat about it.

"So you're nostalgic for the *beginning* of the problem, not the solution. You're mourning the early stages of the disease." - No, we're nostalgic for when the problem wasn't big enough to be worried about. Centralization started with Web 3.0

Translation: "I've become dependent on proprietary software and structured my digital life around corporate platforms, so independence is now inconvenient." - Translation: "If a 3 year old made a crappy OS with no apps or customization I'd use it because it's free and open source and I'm cheap and don't care about what I actually need."

"You want to *talk about* the old internet, not *build* it." - Then why has this community / members outside of this forum built many revivals of 2000s services? BitView, Escargot, Spacehey.. all of these are fan-driven and 'building' the old internet.

"That's fine. But don't call it revival. Call it what it is: a book club for the aesthetics of your own disempowerment." - Actually it's a forum about all things 2000s, operating systems, and aesthetics because it brings us joy. Just like if someone decided to start a book club dedicated to, say the 90s care-free way of writing and aesthetics. 

"For anyone here actually interested in building rather than discussing, Cyberix has IRC, XMPP, working forums, and people willing to teach. The difference is we're *doing it* instead of performing nostalgia on corporate platforms." - I'd rather go to 4Chan.

[xrossmediabar]

The fundamental issue isn't that you like how "Frutiger" Aero *looks*. Aesthetics are subjective. The problem is the disconnect between what you *claim* to want ("old internet") and what you actually *practice*.

The "old internet" was never about aesthetics. It was about *control*. You ran your own server. You chose your own software. You weren't dependent on platform ToS or algorithm changes. When someone says "I'm addicted to Discord" - that's not a technical problem, that's a *designed outcome*. Corporate platforms are engineered to be habit-forming.

"You've built a "retro forum" on Proboards AKA a corporate conglomerate akin to Reddit that could delete everything tomorrow." - Proboards is nothing like Reddit, lol. It just lets you host YOUR forum with pure creativity and freedom.

"It was about *control*. You ran your own server. You chose your own software. You weren't dependent on platform ToS or algorithm changes. " 

Uh, yeah because people in the 2000s totally built everything they wanted to use. Just an average Tuesday, building a VIDEO EDITOR because I am too cool to use a different one. Oh, just a lazy afternoon, coding one of 'em video sharing websites because YouTube isn't niche enough. Get real. There were tons of websites and mags that told you what software to use. PC World, MacWorld, PC Magazine..

" You all organize on and use Discord - literal spyware. You run Windows 11 and call it "debloated" while actual alternatives exist. This isn't trolling, either. I am pointing out that you're LARPing as internet historians while using the exact infrastructure and language that killed what you're mourning." - 1. I don't use Discord. 2. What proof do you have it's spyware? 3. I don't run Windows. I'm on a Mac and am planning to run Win7 on my laptop. In-fact most of us aren't using 11. And nobody has said it's debloated. Where are you pulling ts from? 4. When have we ever said we're internet historians? I've said I wasn't alive in the 'PEAK' of Web 2.0 multiple times and we simply either archive or chat about or reminicising (not me, personally).

"When someone says "I'm addicted to Discord" - that's not a technical problem, that's a *designed outcome*. Corporate platforms are engineered to be habit-forming." - Oh because Yahoo was planning for you to get off GeoCities in 3 seconds and YouTube was meant to be watched for 10 minutes a day back then. It's always been like this. Corporate companies will never be your friends, this has been establishe multiple times in history brotato chips.

I'm gonna watch Scott the Woz now because when he complains about stuff at least he makes good claims.

[Daniele63]

I banned him because he is clearly not capable of having a discussion without being judgemental and extremely rude, also, gatekeeping nostalgia is such a boomer thing to do.
That aside, I'm gonna look into self-hosting and maybe get my own server, and learning PHP/MySQL for those things, because I see the advantages in doing those things.